Episode 29 - Schall We Talk with WorshipHER & Sammy Schall

This episode is such a fun one because I’m joined by my cousin Sammy Schall and his drag persona, WorshipHER... so yes, you get both in one episode.

We talk drag, performance, identity, family, stage life, and what it really means to be fully yourself. I’ve seen Worshipper perform so many times, but this was my first time actually sitting down and interviewing her, which made this one extra special.

In this episode:

Meeting both Sammy and WorshipHER

Drag, glam, live performance, and behind-the-scenes chaos

A real conversation about identity, art, and self-expression

Why drag is about more than entertainment

Family support, showing up, and embracing who you are

Also included:

Wedding and Mallorca talk

Mama Schall’s producer shout-outs and motherly advice

The possibility of me getting turned into a drag queen next

This one is funny, honest, fabulous, and full of heart.

If you want more behind-the-scenes chaos, head over to Patreon: Schall We Talk And if you’re watching on YouTube, please subscribe, like, and comment. We’re clawing our way toward 10,000 subscribers and every comment helps.

Producer shout-outs: Susan Santoro, Veronica and Deanna, Tamar Fix and Dr. Piano Man

#SchallWeTalk #WorshipHER #SammySchall #DragQueen #PodcastEpisode #FamilyEpisode #QueerArt #PerformanceArt #RobYnSchall #MamaSchall #YouTubeCreator

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Shaw We Talk, who can't you see? This is where you wanna be.

SPEAKER_03 0:06

Hi everyone, welcome back to Shaw We Talk. It's me, Robin Shaw, and we have such a fun freaking episode today. So, Sammy Shaw, you may recognize the last name as it's mine, uh, is my first cousin. He also happens to be a brilliant, a sexy, a talented drag queen. And today we are gonna sit down with Worshiper, his drag persona, and then we're gonna sit down with Sammy and we will get to meet both of them. I'm very excited. Although I've watched Worshiper do drag many, many a time, I've never actually sat down and talked with her and interviewed her. So this is like very exciting for me. I'm also excited to sit down with Sammy and talk to him. If you used to watch Call Waiting, he was on an episode of Call Waiting, but that was like three years ago now, which I can't believe has been that long. Do you hear the sirens?

SPEAKER_04 0:58

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

Do you care?

SPEAKER_04 0:59

Not at all.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

Can I tell them why?

SPEAKER_04 1:01

Yes, you can.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

Okay, so securities wires not working. So all the cameras and sound are running on battery, where usually we have it plugged in. So he said, Robin, no, like sometimes I go on tangents. You guys don't know this. Patreon knows it. By the way, make sure you're subscribing on YouTube, liking the comments, leave a nice mess, leave a nice message, leave a whatever on all the apps. If you want to join Patreon, see the extra content, head over there. You can get the link below. Okay, enough about that. We should jump into the episode, right? Yes. But is this even gonna be long enough for an episode?

SPEAKER_04 1:37

Oh, yeah, because we're gonna interview, we're interviewing Sammy and worship her. We are doing two interviews. It's two interviews.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

We don't need too much chit-chat up front. All right, let me just say one thing. Hi everyone, how are you? At this point, we are back from Mallorca or are we in Mallorca?

SPEAKER_04 1:55

I don't know where we are.

SPEAKER_03 1:56

I have no clue. Everything's so wild. I'm getting married.

SPEAKER_04 2:04

And we're running out of battery. I'm getting married. I know! It's exciting!

SPEAKER_03 2:11

Thank God it's Dr. Piano Man. If it was anyone else, this would be we would have to run. Like the only reason I'm excited is because it's him.

SPEAKER_04 2:25

Well good. That's how it should be.

SPEAKER_03 2:28

Okay, this may get cut. I've always with every single guy I've ever dated, the thought of marriage used to give me such anxiety. I have zero. I mean, I have a little anxiety about just like getting the wedding up and running.

SPEAKER_04 2:47

That's fine. Whether it's the perfect guy or not. The wedding should is over.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

Yeah, I would do it today. I would say my life away that I want to be with him forever.

SPEAKER_04 2:57

I'm officiating it, so I can.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

I know. How do you feel about officiating?

SPEAKER_04 3:01

You know, I I what's got most likely after it's over, I'm gonna go, okay, for the next one, I'm gonna do this. Not really, I'm never gonna do it again.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

We should start charging. Uh oh, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 3:13

So if you need an officiate. If you join Patreon, that's the hundred dollar tier.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

Security will come to your house and marry you. Okay, so should we get into the episode?

SPEAKER_04 3:25

Let's get into the episode.

SPEAKER_03 3:26

I am so excited. Let's sit down with the queen herself, Worshiper. And we are here with Worshiper. Hi, Worshipper. Welcome to Shall We Talk. Hi, Robin. Okay, I have to say, I feel a little inadequate sitting next to you because you look so good. Thank you. Between the hair, the makeup, and the breasts, I feel so underdressed.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

It's this is what drag is all about. It's like putting together a concept and and it all all the pieces have to be there working together. You know what I mean? So it's like it is, it's the hair, the makeup, the, the, the, like everything except I'm uh you I'm not wearing nails. But you know, yeah, it's uh it's like a total package thing.

SPEAKER_03 4:12

But I do want to do a disclaimer. Worshbur is wearing a sequence shirt. So for the ones listening and not it not uh watching on YouTube and the whole time you're hearing Sorry. Just know that's their shirt. So you may hear that throughout the whole thing. I'm just realizing.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

Yeah, I just realized that's the same.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

Yeah, so if you hear a little more of okay, you know what? This is glam.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Yeah, it's listen, drag is supposed to be loud, noisy, over the top. So I'm wearing the thing that's making it. And you know what?

SPEAKER_03 4:44

That's like so. If I had to personally describe worshipper, I would say loud, noisy over the top. Oh wait, this is such a good question, and I hope I'm not offending you, worshipper.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

You could never offend me.

SPEAKER_03 4:55

Is worshiper a man or a woman?

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Worshiper is a drag queen. So I present as femme and woman, and obviously I have female anatomy as worshipper. Yeah. But I love to drag to me is all about blending the lines. There are people who do female impersonation, and they would never want to diverge from the female aspect. Me, I'm like, oh yeah, these are my tits, and then also like look at my cock. Or sorry, can I say that on this podcast? You know, so you'll bleep that out.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

It'll be a big bleep.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Me personally, I am very, very comfortable as a man.

SPEAKER_02 5:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

So when I get into drag, this is just dress up for me. This is just fun. And then when I'm putting presenting myself to people, I want them to be confused as hell. I want them to be like people who never thought that they would be attracted to men. And then they're like, wait, but is that a man in there? So am I am I attracted to the man or am I attracted to the woman that they're trying to be? Like, I just want to confuse people because I think we are way too rigid in the society of like what we, you know, we're about gender in general. Yeah. So no, I feel very comfortable as a man, and then I love just dressing up as a woman and because it's so much fun to play in that space, that that middle, the middle earth of it all. Like the mid the midway of it all.

SPEAKER_03 6:17

So are you on the way to the club? Are you going to the club? Are you off duty today?

SPEAKER_00 6:21

I just dropped the kids off at school and now I'm gonna go pick up groceries.

SPEAKER_03 6:25

How okay, worship are tell me your process from you're getting ready, like how do you try like what's your what's your process getting ready to go on stage? As works about it.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

On stage. Okay. On stage, well, I'm usually, to be honest, going on stage with my band, the Bad Judies, more than I'm ever going on stage solo. But I guess the processes are pretty much the same. I have like multiple panic attacks backstage. I cry a little, I, you know, relieve myself on the toilet, and then I like, you know, I scream to the sky, and then finally, once that's all over, I just like calmly go on stage.

SPEAKER_03 7:03

But it's so funny because I've I've watched you and you do not seem nervous when you're on stage.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

I'm obviously joking. I think my I love my happy place is being in front of people giving shows. So I just zone in, you know. The easiest way to do that is just to connect with the people in real time who are in your audience and don't treat it like there's a fourth wall there. You know, in theater and different forms of art, you have to create that fourth wall. Luckily, you and I have a medium where we love to break the fourth wall and we love to get to know our audience and tease them and joke with them, and you know, so I feed off of that energy all the time.

SPEAKER_03 7:43

If you were to run for president, what would your platform be on?

SPEAKER_00 7:46

My platform would be higher heels and more options in the size 13 stiletto.

SPEAKER_03 7:56

Is it hard finding like heels and dresses for your size?

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Luckily, we live in an age now where there's plenty of uh options. You know, most vendors online will go past the size 12 women's, you know, option because they know that there's some big fit footed women out there, and then there are also drag queens. There's a store in the in Chelsea that's all like SM leather. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 8:22

I was actually gonna ask, do you have to go to certain shops, like sex shops and buy stuff?

SPEAKER_00 8:26

You know, pleasers are a huge staple in pleasers are like those pleather stripper heels that you see sometimes and they make those in all the sizes. So like when you're first I would say a lot of drag queens starting off, and even well-seasoned drag queens, everyone's got a pleaser in their closet. Gotcha. Because pleasers are like the go-to.

SPEAKER_03 8:48

And pleasers are the name of those shapes.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Yeah, they're called pleasers, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:52

When do you feel like your worshipper? What's the thing that you put on, then bam, you're there.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

You know, it's really interesting because I can wear tits, I can put on body shapewear and a wig and everything, but the thing that for some reason just clicks with me is my lips. Once I draw these lips on, I feel so sexy. And I actually really toned it down today. My lips are usually like up to here, and they look like I've had filler, but today they're a little more demure. But yeah, lips are like the thing for me. Lips and eyelashes.

SPEAKER_03 9:29

Your eyes look fabulous.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Thank you. Years ago I had a little filler put in, and it's still kind of there, but I like wanted to totally transfer it.

SPEAKER_03 9:38

Do you need a filler right now? Because I want to get filler, and I brought it up to Dr. Piano Man, and he was like, please don't touch your lips. I don't even want filler, I just want a little lip flip to like because I'm so gummy. Like, you know, my like my smile.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

Maybe. I don't think so. I think you have great lips. Thank you. If your top lip was non-existent, I would go. Actually, no, sorry, Dr. Piano Man. I am a total proponent. Fill your face up. Make all the modifications that you want. Like I had a moment when I first got into drag, I was like, why don't I just experiment? Like, we have this body, it's everything is always changing. I got cheek filler, lip filler. I was even thinking about brow filler.

SPEAKER_03 10:16

Wait, where was I when you did all of this? How come I don't remember any of this?

SPEAKER_00 10:19

I don't know, but I looked like a block of clay.

SPEAKER_03 10:22

I do think too much, there's a line with filler where you look good, good, good, bad. Like there's there's there's a line.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

I was never doing it to look good. I was doing it to look insane and dramatic so that when I put the makeup on, it tr completely transforms. And so out of drag, and this is also when I shaved my the era when I shaved my eyebrows. So I literally looked like Frankenstein. Yeah. And it was, it was a you know, I look back on it fondly, but I don't think I'd ever do it again.

SPEAKER_03 10:52

So what do you have right now?

SPEAKER_00 10:53

I have the remnants of cheek filler and lip filler.

SPEAKER_03 10:56

I had no clue.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

And my cheeks were like up to here and my lips were out to there. Sorry. And I honestly just go do it. Like I know, but now you have to consider your job.

SPEAKER_03 11:07

Well, I'm not doing anything pre-wedding. I'm not touching anything. And like he like when we first met, I was like, oh, just a heads up. I'm gonna get a boob job. And he was like, Do please do not get a boob job. But now I don't want a boob job because he like he's the only one who I need to like my boobs and he loves them.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

So I'm like how lucky you are to be with someone who literally is urging you not to do anything.

SPEAKER_03 11:32

I mean, he's such a feminist that he's like, I he'll if I wanted to do something, he would let me like he would never tell me not to touch my body, but he's so attracted to my body that he's like my when I tell them I want to get a lip flip, he's like, no, not your lips. He's like, please don't touch your lips. Or or my boobs. Like those are the two things he like like I think I could cut off a leg before he'd let me uh the only thing I'll say about a lip flip is that you can't get a lip flip without it being noticeable that you had a lip flip.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Filler, maybe if you just get a little filler, it's like, oh, your lips look plumper. But if you get that lip flip, it's like a a modification that is so recognizable as a modification.

SPEAKER_03 12:09

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

But if you don't care that people know.

SPEAKER_03 12:11

This may be too personal.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Never too personal. You can't offend me. You can't ask anything that's too personal, and I don't judge either. If I judge, I do it in private.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

Do it off camera. Okay, so worshipper. Has anyone ever dated you and worshiper is their kink?

SPEAKER_00 12:28

Like, like they uh No, because it would be too much work. I'm not getting into this for someone if they're not paying me, and I'm not a prostitute. So well, allegedly.

SPEAKER_03 12:40

But you could pay me if you're not sure.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

But there there the opposite has happened where uh people will be attracted to me as a boy, as a man, yeah, and then they'll know or see that this happens, and then it just completely m messes with their head, and they're like, Oh, well, now I'm not attracted to you out of like as I saw you, because I know that this happens.

SPEAKER_03 13:00

So people aren't attracted to worshiper.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

People who are initially attracted to Sammy, yes, they can then see worshiper and then be like, Well, now I'm not attracted to Sammy.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

Oh, that's so interesting. I I would I'm shocked. Not Worshiper, but Sammy, who you will meet later, is literally singing me down the aisle. How amazing would it be if it was Worshiper who sang me down the aisle.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

I mean, yeah, that would be iconic.

SPEAKER_03 13:24

We'd go viral.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

That would be iconic.

SPEAKER_03 13:26

I don't know how Eva Antonio's family would feel about it, but we're like, okay, first you're gonna know, like, first we're gonna introduce them to what Jews are, and now we're gonna introduce you to what drugs.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Obviously, if you wanted me to do it, I would do that.

SPEAKER_03 13:39

No, no, no. I don't I mean, honestly, a part of me does because like how fabulous. And like so much of this wedding, I mean, you know, a lot of stuff that they don't know is like a lot of like Robin details and Antonio details that like I'm not trying to fit in a box of what a wedding's supposed to be. I'm putting on my own extravaganza, you know? So like having a drag queen sing me down the aisle would be fabulous, but we'll see. For for now, I I'm feeling Sammy, but still look fabulous, you know.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

You will always look fabulous.

SPEAKER_03 14:08

What's the craziest thing to happen to you during a performance?

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Sometimes people don't know the boundaries, especially in drag at drag shows, and there are viral videos of people overstepping their boundaries and then getting reprimanded at drag shows, which is hilarious. Like women going up thinking it's their turn, and then the drag queen literally just throwing them off the stage, and I I kind of find that funny. So people have we were at a show once doing our singing or something, and there was someone in the audience who was belligerently drunk, and they were like trying to sing with us, but not in tune. Like, not on the right, they were so off, so it was like hurting our performance.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

And so then when we finished, they were like, It's my turn. Like, I you know, they were just so adamant about getting up on stage and perform. And we were like, honey, this isn't your open mic.

SPEAKER_03 14:59

No, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

This isn't your show. So they ended up getting escorted out. But honestly, not too much. I wish I had a better story for you.

SPEAKER_03 15:06

No, that's great.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Yeah, but it pretty much just people thinking that it's their show and having to remind them that no.

SPEAKER_03 15:12

I've had that. I was once, it was at Caroline's, and I'm about to go on, and someone came up to me and they're like, he's like, hey, I was wondering, can I go up? I was like, no, these are paid comics. What are you talking about getting you go up? Oh yeah, I think people sometimes think why whether it's drag or comic, comedy, that it's just like we're just waking up and going on stage and it's not like hardware.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

And that's what's so funny to me is that there are some people who are so appreciative and realize how much work gets put into, especially drag, and then a drag performance. And then there are people who have no idea. It just goes right over their head. Yeah. And they're just like, oh yeah, like you just woke up and did this, and now I'm gonna do this too. And no.

SPEAKER_03 15:51

Okay, so you said you start feeling like you once your lips are on.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

Lips, and then also I think the padding and the boobs. And these are my boobs. I have a couple, I have several sets of boobs, but these are this is uh Robin and Regina, and you know, and they're gonna be. I go my Mary Keenan and Ashley, and you name your words. Robin and Regina. So yeah, the padding.

SPEAKER_03 16:12

Are they silicone? What are they made out of?

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Yeah, this is pure silicone. And this is, I think, the larger of the breastplates that I have, but it's become such a trend now to go completely over the edge and get like Z's or X's or whatever they so like you're basically toppled over. So I, you know, once the next check comes, I'll probably splurge on because it's not cheap.

SPEAKER_03 16:34

So I know being drag is so expensive. How did it feel when you come out and you see your uncle Ira, my father, or your uncle Jay sitting there and you're like doing your dance? Like, are you thinking like these are my uncles? Or are you thinking like, oh my gosh, they're having so much fun? Like, what's in your brain?

SPEAKER_00 16:55

All I'm thinking is, are they gonna tip me?

SPEAKER_03 16:59

And the answer is. And me too. They do like anytime my family's going, my dad will be like, Don't forget to bring money.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

When I speak to my band all the time and we're talking about shows, I'm literally like, Well, can we start the show earlier so that all my fans so that all my uncles and aunts could come because they're gonna bring money.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

It's opening because like if the show's at seven or eight, then the shawls are there. Yeah. But the shows that are like 10 or 11, no, they you you've lost stuff.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

Yeah, and I tried so hard. We have our our lead singer is coming back in a couple of weeks, and then May 9th, we have a huge welcome back, we're back show. Yeah. And I pleaded with the venue to make it earlier and make it. It's not it's gonna be a late show. What time? And when it's gonna start at 10.

SPEAKER_03 17:42

Where?

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Two blocks, two blocks away. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:45

When is it?

SPEAKER_00 17:46

May 9th. It's a Saturday.

SPEAKER_03 17:47

Okay. Oh, maybe we'll have my dad's birthday there.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

If you came early with him, yeah, I will be there early so we could all just hang out, but we won't be just won't be performing until 10.

SPEAKER_03 17:57

Well, maybe you could stay up late. It's his birthday. Oh, maybe we oh no. I was gonna say eventually I want to film. I want to do an episode with Worshiper backstage. Like where we're gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

Please come to our show, come to the dressing room, yeah, come to rehearsal.

SPEAKER_03 18:10

All right, what shows do you guys have coming up?

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Oh, yeah, we have so many shows. Please follow us at the Bad Judy's T-H-E-B-A-D-J-U-D-I-E-S on Instagram, and we'll list all of the shows. It's Pride season coming up, and it's summer coming up. So we just have an ongoing tour basically. We're gonna be doing Queen's Pride. We're gonna be playing in Fire Island every week. We have this huge show coming up, our welcome back show. We're playing New Hampshire, we're gonna be in Provincetown doing like a cabaret doing like a cabaret week that they're doing there. So we're gonna be all over. So just follow us so you can like see the actual dates that we post.

SPEAKER_03 18:50

Worshipper, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

It's my pleasure. I'll come back anytime you ask. We're definitely gonna have to do like a behind the scenes of a Judy show. You can come, you can get on stage if you want. We'll have your parents in the audience. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 19:06

Well, um, I I really want you to turn me into drag. I think that'd be a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

I think that is really what the we should be side by side. Yeah. And I'll be painting and like we'll see what what you come up with.

SPEAKER_03 19:17

Perfect, perfect. We'll definitely go back.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

And obviously, I'll like help you through the process. You're the best.

SPEAKER_03 19:22

All right, love you. Oh my gosh, that was wild. That was fun. So now let's sit down with Sammy, my cousin, worshiper's creator? Alter ego. We'll ask him what he calls it. Okay. Okay, here's Sammy. Alright, and now we're here with Sammy, the creator, the original, the what like is worshiper your alter ego? What what do you call her?

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Like your She's my drag persona.

SPEAKER_03 19:55

She's your drag persona.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

She's but you know, everyone who knows me as worshiper in the drag scene or in nightlife just calls me worshiper out of drag. It's just easier. It's just easier than remembering another name for someone, especially in nightlife where you're meeting so many people. It's just like stick to the one.

SPEAKER_03 20:11

So, like your band members, if they see you out and about, they call you worshiper.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

We all call each other by our drag name. All drag queens pretty much they would never use the government name unless they're like unless they're trying to dig into you and they're like trying to make a joke or something.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

Oh my gosh. So worshipper kind of blends into you too. Like it's not like two completely different.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Yeah, people see me out of drag and call me worshiper, but I'm not I have no inclination to sort of go halfsies, like to sort of s do drag halfway. It's either this or the full other end of the spectrum.

SPEAKER_03 20:47

Is that the norm for most drag queens?

SPEAKER_00 20:49

Like or no, because drag queens, so many different types of people do drag, and there's so many reasons why people do drag. So if a person's doing drag uh purely for the artistic form of it, then perhaps. But there are people who are sort of playing with every crayon in the crayon box and they're they're experimenting with gender because they uh are fluid in their gender. Right. So there are people who do drag and have sort of this ultimate persona in drag. But out of drag, they may look very similar to who they are in drag. Right. You know, whereas like I some people don't recognize me at all.

SPEAKER_03 21:25

So it's so interesting. So and I guess I I know this, but for other people, when you're watching drag, it really is such a spectrum. Like this isn't just like people who, like you say, like want to experiment in women's clothes. Like some of it some people, I think I I I don't want to put words in your mouth, like for you, it's really the art of the performance.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

It's a lot of things. It's the art, it's the art of drag. So it's it's especially in the it's sort of pageanty in a way, where it's like all drag queens and all People who watch drag queens, all they do is judge other drag queens. Like that's that's an art in itself. Well, that's like comics too.

SPEAKER_03 22:07

All we do is judge each other's jokes.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

If you get in drag and you perform, you have to be so ready for all the comments, all the ridicule, all the people to try to tear you down, which is why it pays or benefits to just be immaculate and be so good at what you do. And you know, a lot of times I'll have like a ripped tight or a ripped, you know, something, and most of the time I say it's intentional, and it is, but so you know, some if people don't get it, there's some people who will clock you and be like, well, you know, she didn't have that thing glued down and this the It does make me think of like stand-up, like that you have to be undeniable because the internet and other comics want to tear apart your jokes and say, well, this wasn't funny and the format of the like but I think that's any artist.

SPEAKER_03 22:51

And I wonder as a musician too, think about even when you go to a concert, like when I'm with Antonio and we're listening to a pianist, he'll go, Well, actually, like I don't like I think it's I don't like watching sitcoms, and people are always shocked by that. But I cannot watch a sitcom without going, why didn't they wait a beat to say that joke? Like I love watching Friends, but I can't watch it to because that show is so amazing with timing. Like those act and Seinfeld too. The timing and the beats are so good that I watch it hearing the beats and the timing instead of getting lost. So I think across the board, like if you are in that art, you're always gonna be pulling it apart or praising.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

And drag is my channel through which I can do all my artistic things. So I can do comedy, I can be on the microphone, I can host, and I can play music.

SPEAKER_03 23:43

And you're in a drag band, which that makes it a different category on the stuff.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

Yeah, very unique that it's a drag band. I also think, you know, you were saying like anybody's gonna anybody who gets up on stage or does an act is gonna it be subject to ridicule. And yes, we will read, we call it reading, we will read a drag queen down for filth, but at the end of the day, just the fact that you're getting up in public doing drag is super important politically. So like it's a political statement and it takes a lot of balls to do drag. So regardless, uh usually regardless of whether you're super polished or not, you will be praised or applauded or at least welcomed in the community, unless you're a total garbage human, like you know, personality-wise, but pretty much you will be welcomed because you're doing something that is very important for the community.

SPEAKER_03 24:34

Can you elaborate on how it's political?

SPEAKER_00 24:37

Oh, yeah. So, you know, right now there's so much happening in the world, in media, in peop with people in power trying to censor what we see and what we're able to digest culturally and visually and online. So, especially in the trans and LGBT, the queer community, people are people are trying to silence them all the time and take away their rights all the time. So any opportunity for anyone, whether you're you're aligned with the queer community or heterosexual as just anyone. If you get in drag, and drag is very broad, but if you just get in drag in places where it is allowed or even places where it's not allowed, especially in places where maybe it's like not common, you know, like in somewhere in the middle of nowhere in America, where you know, where there aren't there isn't a single drag queen, then you're doing a service to our community because you're exposing people to just uh the way other people live and showing them that it's not harmful. And it's not, you know, it's not all of the things that it's being made out to be in the media system. Right. You're not trying to corrupt or change or like pe like but when I say change people, you're not trying to bring them to a dark side, you're trying to entertain and make people happy and at the end of the day, it's just one person living their experience and their truth and showing you that like you're allowed to live in a world where other people are doing what they want to do and not hurting anyone, you know, and just because it it it goes against maybe what you've read in the Bible or what your religion or whatever it is, what you've grown up thinking or being told to think or believe, it that doesn't mean that it's wrong or or you know should be banned or right.

SPEAKER_03 26:18

I mean there are parts in the country that drag is banned, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:21

Yeah, I think in Florida it's still there are some places where it's still banned. Luckily in New York, it's everywhere. You know, and it's it's nobody really bats an eye if someone dressed like you know in drag walks down the street, but you know, with the Judy's, we've taken it to we've we've been pretty much all around all around the northeast. And luckily we've we I guess the furthest out we've been is New Hampshire in the White Mountains of New Hampshire and North Conway. And they're very they were very welcoming to us. Like everyone was so appreciative. And it was funny because we did a pride in North Conway, New Hampshire, in the it's in this valley, it's beautiful, and we've done it every year, we're doing it this year. And right next to the pride where they scheduled it, where they planned it to be, was this very conservative country club. Yeah. So we pulled the Judys pulled up in our car in drag. We like open, popped open the trunk, like everything's flying out, and these old white men in their golf carts are like just all stopped and they're looking at us like, what the fuck is going on? So that was fun. Yeah. I'm all about like, you know, that shock value. I love it. Yeah. So with drag, that's why the more you perform drag in public, there are people who want to ban drag read story time and drag shows who've never seen a drag show. They have no idea. It's just in their it's just in their head what they think or what they've been told a drag show is. So I I agree with you 100%. If they saw what it is or like what's really taking place, they would have a totally different idea about it.

SPEAKER_03 27:50

One of my first experiences with drag was at your show. And that's not true, it wasn't even one of the first. Yeah, no, that's very, very true. But one okay, I'm gonna say my first time seeing you do drag, we brought my dad and our uncle Jay.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Yes, it was also my dad, that was my first time my dad saw me in drag.

SPEAKER_03 28:09

No, this was a different show.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

Oh, the one in Brooklyn? No.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

Oh, no, I actually think it was at Q, the Q bar place.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

Oh, wow. I didn't know that you saw me there.

SPEAKER_04 28:22

And just so you know, that was my first time also. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

Oh, when I did the competition.

SPEAKER_04 28:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 28:26

Yes. Okay. And I just remember it wasn't you, it was one of the other queens came over and you know, was like like going this dad, my dad and Uncle Jay sitting in front of me, and I just see like the two of them like turn around with like, where are people? Like, I think they had no clue. With that said, my dad and my uncle Jay now go to like shows monthly. They love it, they have the best time. But it's so funny, like, people don't know what they're about to get into.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

And that was the Halloween competition show. So people were especially spooky looking and taking you know the fake blood in their mouths, like all this stuff.

SPEAKER_03 29:03

So I could only But I just remember the two of them just like turning their heads at this time like, what's happening? But that's why you need to be exposed to it because when you go, then you are like, oh, this is so fun. This is so happy, yeah. This is so entertaining. Like, and like what was so great about so many of those shows, like the competitions ones, because I've been to a few of them, is sometimes like the queen will be singing like a dramatic piece. And like and it's like heartfelt and like political and and just like it is just so but then you go in there, some that are hilarious, and you and the and the and the bad Judys do this Christmas show every year, yeah, which is some of the best theater I've ever seen. I tell you this every time I've gone. I was so upset I was on tour when you did it this year, but it's so like it's so good. It's so good, it's so good. I I we talked about this when you were on call waiting, yeah, but it really is when I think of you and drag, I always think of your dad like I can't because can't not think about him. One because so Sammy's father, my godmother. I think the godmother and godfather, and then people always like I didn't know people like people took that seriously. I'm like, yeah, because if something happens to my parents, I have to go move in with your mom. Let me first say that we went to see you. Was that in Brooklyn?

SPEAKER_05 30:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 30:32

And it was Gary's first time seeing you? Just a little side note. My uncle Gary, brilliant musician, but like music has been his whole life and traveled the world and everything from like superintendent to music teacher to musician. Like he did the drums for Joan Rivers. Yeah. Where was that? At was that at Carnegie Hall?

SPEAKER_00 30:54

I don't know if Joan Rivers is at Carnegie Hall, but he's played Carnegie Hall several times.

SPEAKER_03 30:58

He played Town Hall. Yeah, yeah. Um and then, but but classically trained, like musician, yeah, percussionist, composer, like done it all. Okay. It's my Uncle Gary's first time seeing his son, Sammy, in drag. By the way, Sammy's also a brilliant musician. So Sammy's up there playing the drums, but with huge boobs. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

Always huge boobs.

SPEAKER_03 31:23

And your dad was grinning. I mean, Uncle Gary always had like a huge smile, but this was a smile I have never seen like a father have of just such pride of like, oh my god, this is art. Like, like he was like so taken back and had so much like excitement and pride. And now, fast forward a couple years later, they end up doing something together, which I'll I'll get to, but like, how cool, how does that make you feel that like your parents just like this is art, like kind of we were saying, it it's like a very different new school type of art that like you come from a family whose parents like not only accept it, but like thought it was like the coolest thing. Like, how did that feel?

SPEAKER_00 32:09

Well, I think it wouldn't have mattered what I did or whether it was cool or whether it was art or anything. My parents would have just supported me no matter what. My dad supported me with any decision I made about anything. So I think like that's the fundamental aspect of it is that like if you just have a parent who supports you for better or for worse, thick and thin, whatever you're doing, they're just there to support, then anything is possible. And I mean, even if I didn't have I just know that there's so many artists and drag queens and drag artists out there that don't have the support of their family, and they still do it. And even if I didn't have the support, I would still do it. But having that support just means everything because you I don't know, it gives you a sense of pride. It you know, it it just it makes everything more enjoyable, you know?

SPEAKER_02 33:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

It just takes away a lot of stress or any doubt that you might have. And that goes for whether, again, whatever the medium was, whether it was drag or not, just do pursuing anything and having support from especially from your family takes away a lot of doubt, which is so ingrained in every artist. That doubt of like, am I good enough? Am I doing the right thing? Am I on the right path? So that just like kind of helped wipe wipe it out or keep me on keep me on track.

SPEAKER_03 33:27

Yeah, I would do comedy regardless, but so many times I want to quit, but then my parents are like, What are you doing? You're so good at it. Like it does, it helped I mean, again, I would do it, and there's so many comics who don't have the support and do it anyway, but it does.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

It makes like a difference when your parents and family and the other thing is, you know, the so many shawls live in New York, and drag is such a dying art form. It just people are not going out anymore, period. And especially to drag shows, it's like pulling teeth, getting people to come to your shows. So knowing that I had at least 10 shawls who were coming to every show no matter what. And even the the Judy's or people at the venues, like my boss, the people who own the venues, everything, like, oh, is your family coming again? You know, we used to do a brunch at South Street Seaport, and my parents were there all the time. They'd drive down just for this brunch on a Sunday, you know. And Aunt Karen and Uncle Jay, they would come too, and it's like they were expected to be there, and they made friends with the business owners and the staff.

SPEAKER_03 34:23

And it's the same for me. Like, first off, I wanted to say when I first started, but still my parents come to every show around the country. Like just quickly, that last show he did with his dad before his dad passed. No, wait, yeah, that was the last show, right? His dad had cancer. Every we all kind of knew at that point he was off chemo.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

Yeah, that we knew that was the last show.

SPEAKER_03 34:45

Yeah, we knew that was gonna be the last show, and what our Uncle Gary did because he was composing music and like putting on these shows every couple of months. Yes, he combined it with Sammy's band. So the Bad Judy's opened, and then it was Gary's like more original music. But also during this, they had made a film.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Oh, right. The film, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:07

Like that thing, it was like such it was so many layers. It was the best piece of art I have ever seen in my entire life. And maybe it's because, you know, I knew it was my uncle's last show, maybe it's because I adore you so much. I don't know. But I also think objectively, because I think as an artist, I can be very objective.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_03 35:24

Between the film and the and the combination of drag and this not old school music.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

How do you describe it was actually it's it's sort of newish, like new wave experimental minimalist music.

SPEAKER_03 35:38

Oh, so it's really not old school.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

It's it's it's the fundamental aspects of this music are it rooted in sort of some old ways of you know, minimalism, which is like from you know, it's really like a 20th century thing, but my dad took it to this new level. And you were saying earlier about his appreciation and that grin on his face when he saw the show and all that. He made this video. My our my friend Liz, Revenge Wife is her is her name. She's a wonderful artist and musician. She was my dad hired her to follow me around in it to the point of where like I was it was becoming too much that I was like that this camera was, you know. But she followed me in and out of drag doing performances, what it's like on stage, and then she followed me backstage taking off the drag, and all of this was for my dad's song, which was all about an artist creating an artist and how one informed the other. And like that's it was kind of it was insane. I know it was insane. And so while he was playing this final piece, that video of me in drag and living this life as a drag queen was playing in the background, so yeah. Like I honestly, not that I forgot about it, but I just hadn't thought about that in a really long time. And it was, yeah, it was magnanimous and it was big.

SPEAKER_03 36:55

I know we like didn't do a funeral, but like knowing him, like that show was like the most perfect dedication to him. Like he loved music, he loved his family, he loved the art. Like, I couldn't think of you, kind of like how with our Uncle Lee, like how we rented in theater. Our family's weird. But like, oh my god, it was so perfect. I've shared this story before, you know, on the last podcast. But they did a QA afterwards, and someone said, you know, Gary, you come from such a classical train music, and now your son's a drag queen. Like, what do you think of that? And Gary goes, Why would I want a son who's a doctor when I could have a son that's a drag queen, and everyone just like, what not? Because it really is the mentality of the shawls that's like to your point before, you said he supported everything. Like the shawls are the most like we could say short of like murdering people, I think we're gonna support you.

SPEAKER_04 37:54

Yeah, but you murdered that person beautifully.

SPEAKER_03 37:58

Yeah, I don't support it, but if you're quite yeah, your timing was impeccable.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:03

The way you cleaned up the scene, I don't support the murder, but the way you handled.

SPEAKER_04 38:08

The place was immaculate after. Immaculate.

SPEAKER_03 38:12

All right, Sammy, I love you so much. I vote we do a part two episode where you teach me how to get into drag and you teach meal drag, and then maybe we even take this a little behind the scenes at one of your shows.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

I love it. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 38:27

Yes, and that's a great deal. All right, I love you.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

I love you so much. All right, thank you very much. Thanks for having me. Bye, kids.

SPEAKER_03 38:34

We have not edited this yet, obviously. We're, you know, filming in real time, but I am already so excited for this episode. It should be. This is gonna be so fun. Yeah. What you know what? We upped the production value.

SPEAKER_04 38:46

Yes, we did. We got two guests in one episode and paid none.

SPEAKER_03 38:52

Okay, let's call Mama Shaw and get our producer shout-outs. Oh, you know, Mama Seal is Sammy's godmother. Oh. Oh, you don't sound happy.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

What is it? Uncle saying it in camera.

SPEAKER_03 39:12

Oh, okay. Tell them you're recording the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

Am I gonna do my segment now?

SPEAKER_03 39:16

Yeah, Rom, we're recording now. You're on you're live on the air.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

Oh, I'm okay. We're live right now.

SPEAKER_02 39:24

Are they sitting next to you?

SPEAKER_01 39:27

No, I went into the other room, but I have to say that was a discussion of motherly advice. Yeah. I got a little bit of motherly advice from Richie's godmother.

SPEAKER_03 39:40

Oh, that wait, hold on. Are you Sammy's godmother?

SPEAKER_01 39:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 39:44

Okay. And and Sammy's mom is my godmother, and you just got advice from security's godmother? Yes. Let's first do produce security's getting flustered. All right. All right. All right, give our producer shout outs.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

Okay, we want to thank all the patreons, and I want to give a shout out to those in the producer tier. We have Susan Santoro, Veronica and Deanna, Tamar Fix, and Dr. Piano. And I want to thank all the Patreons for all their support for Robin and the art.

SPEAKER_03 40:21

Also, if you are a Patreon, stay alert because I will be posting soon. We are going to be having a Patreon party, a live stream party for all Patrons. Whether you're a free member or a paid member, it's going to be all Patreons. And yes, you can join Patreon for free. I barely post for the free, but if you are a Patreon, free or paid, we're going to be having a Patreon live stream party soon.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

And one more time, I want to say thank you to all the producers for their support for Robin and the art.

SPEAKER_03 40:52

Yes, thank you to our Patreon producers. Thank you so much. We couldn't do this without you. All our Patreons, thank you so much. Um, all right, let's do our motherly advice.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

Well, we were talking about pursuing your dreams. And if there is something, talent that you have and that you really love doing, you should go for it. But there is always a lot. And don't let judgmental people discourage you. But be smart about it. Know what it involves and the hard work that it's gonna take to succeed. It's not gonna just because you want it to happen. It's gonna take hard work. And the proof of this is all of us wasn't. I mean, you work so hard, and everything that you have achieved has been through hard work. Following your dream.

SPEAKER_03 41:51

Yeah. You know, Antony, you and Dad are always so supportive from the start, but you guys also, you know, I mean, like, I didn't I was personal training when I first started stand-up. I didn't stop personal training until stand-up paid the bills. I've always had multiple jobs. Like not nothing in this career has ever been easy. But with that said, you you always said, but you gotta go for it. Do take on the 10 jobs, just make sure you're continuing following your dreams.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

Mickey's godmother said, Yeah, there's only one place where success comes before work in the dictionary.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

She's been hanging out with Dr. Piano Man too much.

SPEAKER_03 42:38

That's a Dr. Piano Man. Dr. Piano Man, Mama Shaw has a joke for you. All right, Mama Shaw has a joke for you. All right, mom, go, what's the joke?

SPEAKER_01 42:55

There's only one place where success comes before work in the dictionary.

SPEAKER_03 43:02

Oh, he knew it. I was like, and Karen told her that. I said, she's been hanging out with Dr. Piano Man for too much. All right, he knew the joke. All right.

SPEAKER_01 43:13

It was, I thought it was very cute.

SPEAKER_03 43:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, love you. You're so handsome.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

Love you.

SPEAKER_03 43:21

All right, bye.

unknown 43:23

Bye.

SPEAKER_04 43:24

Are you and I the only ones that never heard that?

SPEAKER_03 43:27

Oh my god, what a, what a what a what a show we have. Thank you guys for being here. I love doing this show so much. I have so much fun hanging out with you guys every week. Make sure on YouTube you're subscribing, liking, leaving all the comments. Yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. I will see you next week when we have no clue what's gonna happen. Not even me.